»Emotion is just as important to us as a rational system« – an Interview with ELLA
ELLA is a studio in Los Angeles known for its exquisite graphic design and its objective of not just wanting to be problem solvers but aspiring to change the world through inclusiveness, understanding, and respect.
Why did you want it to sound feminine?
Stephen: As men are still much too dominant in this world, it fits our beliefs to put women forward.
River: I also think that going against what everybody else is doing ends up being part of the reason for a lot of the decisions that we make. Letting women run the show is a symbol of what we are fighting for.
At the same time, you always emphasize that you are a minority-owned studio.
Stephen: We have a fifty-fifty partnership and that is who we are. River identifies as a woman and I’m of Mexican American descent, I’m a minority. Besides that, we do believe in the law of attraction. A statement like this often attracts those who prioritize these things as well.
River: It’s something that is always part of the conversation. Since we met each other, these types of challenges have been part of our work. To get established as we are and to have done it as a minority and a female takes extra. I don’t necessarily need to be labeled. But we’re proud of what we are and what we have achieved so far.
Do you think the design industry is still too male and too white?
Stephen: It doesn’t only apply to the design industry but to every sector. You have to work twice as hard in our primarily white male dominated society if you’re not one of them.
River: At the same time, it’s so amazing that people are taking charge of design and doing it very successfully on their own terms. There’s more visibility and representation for all kinds of groups right now.
Stephen: But of course minorities are underrepresented. You just have to look at the tech industry, which is the biggest one here in California. The amount of black and brown folks at Google for example is minuscule compared to other people. It’s all about accessibility. I grew up in a predominantly Mexican neighborhood and I didn’t know about graphic design as a profession until I went to college.
»Letting women run the show is a symbol of what we are fighting for«
River Jukes-Hudson
Your focus on inclusivity, on humanity and respect is very topical right now. But you have been pursuing it for almost ten years. Where does this attitude come from? Was it your upbringing?
River: These have always been our priorities. It goes back to who we are at our core. We’ve always cared really deeply about these conversations and are happy that they are finally getting the attention they deserve. I grew up on an old chicken farm, and Stephen grew up in LA. We are humble and empathetic and very interested in the world around us and in others lives. The junior designers, interns, and other people that we work with all have very different backgrounds and origin stories.
And how do you work together?
River: We always incorporate different perspectives into a project. We are in dialogue during research, sharing things we’ve read, experimenting and writing together and doing creative research. When we feel that we have a strong grasp of the subject, we start sketching and making things that are visual. For us it’s important to do that separately to get completely different perspectives on the same subject. The end result is then something that no one person could have come up with, because it’s made of all these bits and pieces from different perspectives.
Do you have an example for your creative research?
River: We recently did an identity for a collective of directors called Ummah Chroma Creative Partners. They had a wonderful vision of what they want to be and have captured that in a very beautifully written and inspiring mission statement. So instead of thinking about a symbol to represent them, we started looking at the history of mark making in an effort to come up with a technique that felt rooted in history, but also timeless. We used different processes that have been around since the beginning of people, tried out different print methods and carving. At the same time, we were thinking about the symbolism and what that mark needed to embody and all that resulted in a special form.
Stephen: When we design a book, we need four weeks for research and concept before we start designing. Getting deep into the subject matter takes time, and we’re very transparent about it with our clients. With our experience today, we could of course design it relatively quickly. But we don’t want to just create something that is good, but something that is relevant.
River: Not rushing is another important aspect of our process. And one that is really unusual in LA, especially if you work for entertainment or fashion. We’ve engaged in projects like that, because they seemed exciting. But ultimately, they just felt rushed and also like some opportunities were missed. So one of our big priorities is time.
Is your approach to include a human quality in your work also part of that?
River: The way we work is just as important as the outcome. Being flexible is a huge part of the success of a project, especially when everything we do is a group effort. Designing a book involves a big team – the artist, the curator, the editor, the copy editor, the printer, it’s almost like making a movie. We want to make sure that all of the team members feel appreciated and respected for their role in that process. When we talk about atypical ways of working, it goes back to a holistic approach where being understanding and flexible, really hearing what people are saying, and resolving conflicts are crucial parts of the way we operate. We are not interested in making everything neat, tidy and perfect or creating a system that is rigid. We want to prioritize the human, value feelings, and incorporate emotion as an important factor in decision making. All that comes out in the work and is part of the success of the result.
Stephen: The idea of creating something that’s not necessarily predetermined is very important to us. Everybody has studied the Bauhaus model for the last 80 years. We all know the rules, the standards, the modernist references and what is considered. But that’s not necessarily what we prioritize. We want to create things that people feel connected to. Emotion is just as important to us as a rational system. If I create a rational system that follows all the rules perfectly, then it’s exquisite – where is the spirit? Where is the soul in this piece? It is pure form and nothing more than organized content. But a lot of designers would stop at that point because they accept design should be objective and solve problems.
River: We’re very tired of designer as problem solver. We think that the most interesting design is challenging a notion or it’s sparking a conversation, that it has a perspective or a point of view. It is not necessarily about bringing everything full circle, it’s about leaving things open ended and open for discussion.
»We don’t want to just create something that is good, but something that is relevant«
Stephen Serrato
Is this what you mean when you say that there is no future for business as usual?
River: This remark was partly in response to the uprising that resulted from the murder of George Floyd. People are directly addressing racism and a lot of necessary change happened very rapidly. But that statement was also sparked by observing our students. We both teach typography and print at the ArtCenter College of Design. The respect they give to one another, their acceptance, empathy and inclusivity is as incredible as it is radical. They want to accommodate everybody, they don’t want anybody feeling incapable or left out.
Stephen: Also, during the pandemic a lot more conversations about self-care started, about boundaries and needs being met. Throughout the United States, people started leaving their jobs, because of the lack of benefits and the realization of how unhappy they were. The pandemic made all of us very conscious of things like that, and that the way things were running before is not go to work anymore.
How does the ethos of activists like Cristina Rivera-Chapman, who is part of the Black Farmer movement and co-owner of the farm cooperative Tierra Negra, that you’re inspired by, influence your work?
River: One of the very exciting conversations that have interested me in the past few years is about understanding how white supremacy values dictate all of our behavior. Like prioritizing punctuality, results, those expectations that have always been called professionalism. And there was this article, in which Christina Rivera-Chapman talked about how she interacts with her team and how they take time with each other in a meaningful way. Her way of working and reacting against white supremacy culture by building in time, flexibility and understanding into the work process, that influenced us.
Finally, let’s talk about Design Atlas, which you created as teachers at the ArtCenter. It is accessible to everyone and also has a political claim in terms of content.
River: Design Atlas started as a practical resource for teachers. In class, you often want to pull up an example of a design related term. But if you Google it, you’re not necessarily going to get relevant examples. We were spending a lot of time putting examples together for ourselves and at one point thought it would be good to make them available for others. Together with Folder Studio, we designed the website http://designatlas.info and also got funding from The Hoffmitz Milken Center for Typography. It was really grassroots, but evolved into a class that invites grad students to participate in pulling, editing and sequencing the examples and learning more about design that way.
But your aspiration goes even beyond this.
River: The bigger picture goal is, that we really want to break down definitions and show that there can be multiple interpretations of a design term and multiple ways of applying or utilizing a design tactic. We want to supplement the same names you see in the hundred greatest of all time textbooks. We want to break down hierarchy, and provide a resource where the students can see themselves, their language, and their influences reflected.
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